We are making them better Hindus
I was looking over the Vaisnava calendar to find out just when Govardhana puja falls this year (it’s Nov. 10th, btw) and I noticed Dwali/Dipavali is the day before. I looked around at some temple websites and saw that most are advertising Dwali celebrations. There’s little mention of Govardhana puja.
When I joined up, I don’t think we celebrated Diwali or Dipavali. It was Govardhana puja only. Diwali was some Hindu holiday with lights or something.
So I’ve got a few questions here. When did we (as ISKCON devotees … or maybe as Gaudia Vaisnavas in general) start officially celebrating Diwali? Did Srila Prabhupada even mention celebrating Diwali? If not, why do we do it? I figured that it was Govardhana puja-centric.
Lately, I’ve seen a few devotees (Jayadwaita and Danavir Maharajas specifically) lobby for the style of kirtana that Srila Prabhupada taught us. That’s fine. But I don’t see the same when talking about the festivals. Maybe I’m missing it.
Ok, I’ll confess, I’m not stupid. I know why we celebrate the Hindu festivals like Diwali and Sivratri. It brings in the Hindus, brings in the cash (cha-ching!) and it’s easy. Much easier than raising money like we used to.
If we change back to the old kirtanas, we don’t lose any money. But if we stop celebrating the Hindu festivals and the “car poojas,” there’s a chance that the dough won’t flow. Is that really what’s important?
One thing we really need to keep in mind when we cater to “the Hindus” is that we are not making them better devotees. We are making them better Hindus. And that is not our philosophy.
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10/25/2007 at 12:23 pm
Your really funny.
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10/25/2007 at 12:35 pm
Well… sometimes I can be, sure. But I was serious here.. about this.
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10/25/2007 at 7:03 pm
hey eric
pamho, agtsp, all glories to guru and gauranga.
you make good points but i think there might be more to it than that. i don’t know that much but i think i can shed some light on the issue. please forgive me if i commit any offense. here goes nothing:
i do not know if Prabhupada ever mentioned Diwali, but what i understand of the holiday is that
first- in terms of the vedic calender, it is the last day of the vedic year
second-it is the exact day on which lord krishna was bound by the rope of love by his mother
third- Diwali is the exact day that lord Rama came back to Ayodhyia(don’t know if that spelling is right) and since Sri hanuman went ahead to inform all the citizen of Ayodhyia that lord Rama is coming back, they all lit the whole city with lights and all wore there sunday best to give a proper greeting for the return of there lord and king.
on the part of seeing indians as only cash cows, i agree with you that temples have a tendency to not properly preach to them which kind of sucks since we are suppose to make everyone vaishnavas, not just label the indians “congregation members” and accept there money and move on.
once again please forgive me if i have offended anyone and i hope this shed a least some light on the issue.
in service to guru and gauranga
m.m
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10/25/2007 at 7:08 pm
Haribol!
I do understand what diwali is celebrating. I know I wasn’t clear on that, and I apologize. There are many holidays on the Vedic calendar. Prabhupada gave us certain ones. I don’t really think that means that we can’t celebrate the ones the he didn’t give us, but to de-emphasize ones he *did* give us, I feel, is a bad idea.
In this case, we are de-emphasizing Govardhana puja, etc.
I feel we do this specifically to milk the Indians. We let them offer puja to who they believe is a demigod (Krishna) and in turn they feel that in their next life they will have a nice family or lots of money or something. But that’s not our philosophy.
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10/26/2007 at 1:51 am
Haribol, I must admit this comment is going to be biased being that i am of Indian origin. The interaction between ISKCON and Hindus/Indians is a subject of great interest to me. I tecently read parts of a PHD thesis entitled ISKCON and Indians (the author’s name escapes me right now) and it identified two main groups of Indians attending ISKCON temples (based on case studies in the Toronto and Chicago temples) 1. people who were there more as a means of preserving the culture of thier homeland and didn not identify completely with the philosophy of ISKCON and 2. Those who do identify completely with the philosophy of ISKCON (this group was mostly made up of Hindus from Vaishnava backgrounds. As such i think its important to make distinctions of the differences between ISKCON and Hinduism. I seriously doubt if a high percentage of the visitors to the temple program here on Janamastmi even know who Chaitanya Mahaprabu is. However at an ISKCON temple in East Africa (100% Indian congregation) my cousin was to perform a bharatnatyam dnace on Janamastami in 1998 the dance included a ganesh stut at the beginning and the temple president refused to let the dance be performed without this being cut out as it was not appropriate for a vaishnava temple(ironically this temple had deities of ganesh and hanuman on an altar next to prabupada’s vyasasana). As such there are two extremes, and i think that the financial support of the indian community is necessary for temples to sustain temslves and if festivals like shivratri are neccessary for this the postion od shiva as the greatest vaishnava should be expresses, ie. these ‘hindu’ festivals should be clebrated in a vaishnava context. I remember a while back an article on chakra about the Hinduification of ISKCON based on an American ISKCON temple advertizising a Holi festival with little emphasis on gaura purnima. Similarly, i recently saw some videos on youtube from an ISKCON templt in Portugal where Navratri Garba (devotional dance honouring durga) was being performed garba dance is prohibited in the GBC laws on deity worship unless it is in the context of krishna’s rasa lila. The overall point in my rant is that the support of the indian community is necessary but ISKCON needs to draw the line somewhere.
BTW i believe ‘new year’ for gaudiya vaishnavas is gaura purnima but Diwali is new year in other vaishnava traditions like Pushti marg.
sorry for the long comment and the the grammar and spelling mistakes i’m sure i made. Hare krishna!
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10/26/2007 at 3:13 am
Hare Krsna Everyone, please accept my humble obesensies. All glories to Srila Prabhupad. All glories to Guru and Gauranga.
Coming from a “hindu” background I have to say truly that Srila Prabhupad has saved my life. It is not only hard but almost impossible to not get lost in the shuffle of “hinduism” and various festivals, pujas, yagnas and host of million other things and not realize what its purpose is. There are many out there who are placing an importance of being Hindu or being Proud of being hindu but not realizating the misnomer of that name as it is never found in any vedic literature. Millions of philosophies from all gods are one, krsna is one of the hindu gods to we are all god, and who knows what else.
When we talk to Indians about chanting, Krsna or the Gita etc, the common response is “Oh, Im hindu” I know everything” For them being status quo is enough but I am glad that there are those who will change through the messege of Iskcon(meaning proper vedic teachings)and realize that being a hindu is not the goal of life. I actually met someone once who stated that “Just because I dont read the gita, doesnt mean I am not hindu” Infact if you actually read the gita you will realize that you are NOT a hindu.
So it is not merely enough to call oneself a hindu as God is not Hindu, Muslim, Christian, etc but its crucial to develop a relationship with Krsna(God).
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10/26/2007 at 12:29 pm
Hare Krishna! Thanks for the reply, I really appreciate it. You’re right, ISKCON does need to draw the line and I think that line can easily be drawn with what Srila Prabhupada gave us (in respect to festivals).
The Indian community is great. They give us much needed laxmi. But in return we shouldn’t make them better Hindus by performing Hindu samskaras and celebrating their festivals, we should give them love of God and make them better Gaudia Vaisnavas.
That’s what Srila Prabhupada would have done.
And if their money goes away, so be it. At least we’re not pimping ourselves and Their Lordships out to Hindus.
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10/26/2007 at 12:32 pm
Hare Krishna!
One thing that I am sorry for neglecting in this post is the mention of the Indian-bodied gaudia vaisnavas. I was speaking specifically about Hindus. Yes, pretty much all Hindus are Indian-bodied, but I wasn’t making a statement about race. I’m sorry for being a bit vague on that.
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