If I don't agree, what can be done?
I owe Srila Prabhupada everything. It is because of him that I found my place, my spiritual path back home, back to Godhead. It’s because of him that I have some amazingly wonderful friends who follow the same path. It’s because of him that I am living my life in the best way I know how and am happy. Without him, I’m not sure where I would have ended up.
Though I had never personally met Srila Prabhupada, I’ve always seen him as a spiritual grandfather, a teacher. The role he took with his disciples was one very similar to a parent.
Similarly, my parents were also great and raised me with many of the morals that I will keep through all my days. I feel amazingly fortunate to be born into such a caring and loving family. I may not agree with my parents on some issues, but they will always be my parents. I will always love them unconditionally and will be forever unable to repay them for all they have done for me.
When I was a kid, I thought my parents, especially my father, could do anything. My dad could fix anything. If the car was broken, he’d fix it, if a toy was broken, he’d fix it. Of course, there are things he can’t fix – I know that now. But, of course, that could never change how I feel about him, how I respect him and how I love him.
For the longest time, there were passages written or spoken by Srila Prabhupada that I simply didn’t agree with. I skimmed over them and skirted the issue time and time again. But as I continued down my path, it became harder for me to ignore this.
At first, I was angry at Srila Prabhupada. How could he say such things? Sure, he was from a different culture and a different time, but even so, there’s no way I could agree.
The same was true when I first started disagreeing with things my father said. I was angry at him. How dare he believe things I don’t?! Of course, that’s a pretty childish and selfish way to see it, but I was young.
Likewise, my first knee-jerk reaction to some of Srila Prabhupada’s statements was selfish and immature. How dare Srila Prabhupada disagree with me?!
But then I calmed down and thought about it. Turns out, I don’t seem to have an answer that makes much sense to anyone but me.
With my father, I accepted the differences and still loved him – probably loved him more. My father and I are different in many ways, but the morals, the values that he taught me have always stuck with me. That’s what’s important.
And with Srila Prabhupada, I have to accept these differences and still love him. There are things he said and did that I cannot ever agree with. But there are things he’s taught me that make me a much better person.
I disagree with him about women. I don’t believe that a single woman living on her own is the same as a prostitute. I don’t believe that women should only be taught how to clean, sew and cook rather than being given an education of her own choosing. I do not and cannot ever believe that women are less intelligent than men. I have seen the opposite many, many times and so has anyone reading this.
I don’t agree that the brain of a woman is half the size of a man’s. That is simply not true and we all know it.
There are many such things that he said that the vast majority of his followers know to be untrue, out of date, impractical or simply incorrect. We know this. It is a fact.
But what is important is what do we do with this fact? That was my question and, in many ways, still is. What do I do? I disagree with Srila Prabhupada… now what? Am I committing the greatest offense in the history of offenses? Am I just some liberal neophyte trying to modernize Krishna consciousness? Am I being unfair?
I guess here is where it gets personal.
As I said before, my father and I disagree on some issues, some big issues. But this does not effect our love for each other. If I go to my father, even though we disagree, he is there for me unconditionally. Though we disagree on some pretty big issues in both of our lives, that bond is there and will always be unbroken.
How can Srila Prabhupada be any different? If I disagree with him on some issues, is that love, that bond now null and void? Is what he taught me, through his books and lectures now automatically invalidated? Or do I take the spiritual essence of what he has taught and add it to my life, just like I’ve been trying to do all these years?
There are some who have rejected Srila Prabhupada completely for what he has said. And there are others who pretend that he didn’t say such things. Both of those paths would be dishonest in my life. Others might be able to do that, but I can’t.
I’ll have to choose the middle path and be open about it, neither rejecting the truth nor hiding that I don’t believe in certain things.
Many times he said to “simply add Krishna.” I think that’s my favorite teaching of his. Simply add the chanting of Hare Krishna and your life will be sublime. I may not agree with him on some things, but he was dead on with that one. For now, I’ll continue working on that.
I believe that this is all I’ll be posting on this subject. I was going to go through quotes, but if you wanted to, you could find them pretty easily. For now, this is my conclusion. In the future it may or may not change, but for now, this will have to suffice.
No related posts.
04/03/2009 at 7:47 am
There are so many people who take an all-or-nothing approach to religion.
The Amish, for example, believe that the earth is not only flat, it’s square. This belief is based on a passage in the bible that talks about “the four corners of the earth.” They won’t entertain the idea that the world is round (spherical, to be precise) because that would mean their book has a mistake in it.
We see similar things in Krishna Consciousness from people who won’t believe men have walked on the moon, or that human life evolved from simpler forms. It has to be everything, or else nothing at all.
It took a while, but eventually I just quit caring. If someone wants to believe the moon landings were a hoax or that evolution is a trick or the earth is flat and square, there’s nothing I can ever say that will change their minds. And really, it doesn’t matter. I’m going to chant my rounds and read my books and muddle through life as best I can.
I’m going to pick up the good things I find and carry them with me, and leave the bad things lying where they are.
I think you’ve done a good job reasoning things out for yourself, but I also have to say I’m kind of glad you’re dropping this topic. It seemed a little like poking a stick at a hornet’s nest.
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04/03/2009 at 8:24 am
You’re right about the all or nothing thing. I have a problem with that. I was raised really well, but still, the Protestant thing is very all or nothing – it’s hard to get that out of my head. I had no real idea that it was still there. Go figure.
I’m also really glad that I didn’t go quote by quote here. It was never my intention to poke a hornet’s nest, but that’s what I’d be doing. Sometimes I don’t realize that people aside from a handful of those who comment, read my blog.
I don’t want people to be pissed at me. I really am a fairly nice guy, even if we don’t agree on everything.
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04/03/2009 at 9:28 am
I think this post was very honest and mature. Unfortunately there are not many devotees who have this attitude. Like you wrote it´s mostly “love it or leave it”. You should follow 100% or you are “in maya”. This black and white thinking leads to nothing but a society of people who suppress or hide their own thoughts and feelings for the sake being accepted in a group. It is disfunctional in many aspects. People are not like that. Most devotees are somewhere “inbetween”.
I never thought Srila Prabhupada or my own Gurudeva wanted mindless blind followers. Before I got initiated my Guru told me “First check if I am really fit to be your Guru. You should not follow blindly.”
Someone who really tries to read the books and has the courage to ask these kind of questions without disrespecting or abandoning the Guru is a much better follower.
The acharyas want us to develop genuine bhakti, pure love for Krishna. I strongly believe that all statements of the Bhagavatam, the Gita or the acharya´s commentaries only aim at this. All kinds of “cheating dharmas” which are motivated by something else than love of Krishna (SB 1.2) are rejected. This includes sexism, racism or any other philosophy connected to the darkest regions of material conditioning.
I found it useful to discuss my doubts and questions with my Gurudeva who to this day could harmonize everything for me.
Regarding Srila Prabhupada´s statements in the commentaries: Yes, he wrote this, and I also cannot agree on these issues. Maybe it´s my fault, but that´s who I am.
But…these things are not the essence of his writings. They don´t deal with the ultimate spiritual reality he is discribing in his books. I have no problem to disagree and still worship and love him for what he has given to the world. Like you wrote…”it´s personal”.
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04/03/2009 at 10:58 am
We do not live in a society that is actually governed by Vedic Culture. We live in a world where many different life styles and customs to be found in different places. As an example, a law was just passed this week in Afganistan permitting husbands to forcefully rape their wives whenever they please, whereas here in America that is clearly against our laws and belief systems.
The important thing is that Krishna Consciousness and Vedic Culture can not be forced on anyone. It must be voluntary. If a woman chooses to live in the Vedic style, that is always her choice, and if she chooses to live outside of Vedic culture, that is her choice too. However Vedic Culture has its rules, that if broken and discarded may cease to bring the required effect of gradually increasing God consciousness. At least that is my belief and understanding of what I have read.
Slaves have existed since ancient times in the cultures of ancient Egypt, Greece, Rome, and in Vedic times as well. Slaves are being kept today in Saudi Arabia, even though it is against our laws and belief systems.
The difference in philosophy regarding slaves is how are these persons to be treated according to Vedic culture. Srila Prabhupada stated that a sudra-type worker should be provided a comfortable place to live, plenty of food and clothing, and care.
At the same time they can not be given freedom. They have the freedom to leave anytime they choose, they may have that type of freedom. But they can’t have the freedom to reopen slaughter houses, places of prostitution, casinos, bars, and other such establishments that have been closed if a Vedic government is in place.
This is the difference. It is about semantics. Some people are arguing that Prabhupada endorsed slavery and that he is a monster because of it, but are those same people actually reading how he defined it, or are they distorting the truth for some other motive?
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04/03/2009 at 11:05 am
You have to realize that at Vrajabhumi’s website she is employing censorship. Many devotees go on that site to discuss philosophical ideas in a give-and-take way. She then prints what she wants others to see and not the complete and whole truth of what has been discussed. I realize that at least part of what you feel is from what you have read on her site. At the same time you should know that just as ISKCON has been known to suppress open discussion of ideas and disagreements of your understanding of philosophy, your own friends may also be doing it as well, and you might not even know that they are acting in a similar hypocritical way as well.
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04/03/2009 at 11:09 am
Eric,
This is a great post. I especially appreciate that you make your points without resorting to directly quoting scripture or some of Srila Prabhupada’s writings, comments and instructions. Because of this I can understand that the realizations you are sharing are your own. You’ve come to them through much deliberation. I see that your search for Krishna, through Srila Prabhupada’s teachings, goes beyond rote memorization. Remember, a practical – and personal – aspect of the process of self-realization is that we learn to accept those things favorable and reject those unfavorable for our advancement.
Seeking the essence,
Chaitanya Mangala dasa
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04/03/2009 at 12:31 pm
It’s over anyway. Vedic Culture as Srila Prabhupada conceived and taught, appears to have been rejected in the West, like here in America. It will never take hold and seems to have failed.
At the same time, there are many Vaishnava and Vedic societies in India that do follow the rules of Vedic Culture strictly. They will reject ISKCON as well as a non-authentic and unauthorized Vedic society, because its members couldn’t and wouldn’t follow their own rules.
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04/03/2009 at 2:04 pm
What? This is insufficiently fanatical to be genuinely Krishna conscious!
Seriously: +1.
Suresh, I think that Vrajabhumi is just another person who deals with the issues she finds in Prabhupada’s teachings, and *the way in which a strong social dynamic in ISKCON says you have to deal with them or get out* in a different way. She is not the source of any of these issues, just a very vocal person.
I think there is little point getting into a philosophical give and take with her. For whatever reason she is fulfilling her psychological needs. Best to offer respect to her and get on with taking care of your own psychological needs and development of Krishna consciousness.
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04/03/2009 at 2:54 pm
Someone once said think globally and act locally. Your individual version of what Krishna Consciousness means to you may need to go back to a simpler time before all the heavy rules were piled on. I joined in 1970.
All we had to do then was “chant, dance, and feast”. That’s it. No heavy rules. There were some, the four regs. But they didn’t come down heavy on women in those days. It was fun back then. Listen to the Everytown and Village Album. It hasn’t been fun like that in a long time.
The reason I mentioned Vrajabhumi is what you are reading on her site is not the whole truth. She suppressed and censors what people are writing on her site, and only lets you see what she wants you to see. If you are forming an opinion of Krishna Consciousness from what you read on that site, it is incomplete, because it isn’t totally open or honest.
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04/03/2009 at 3:01 pm
Thank you. I really like how your gurudeva said, “First check if I am really fit to be your Guru. You should not follow blindly.” That’s so important. The student is supposed to test the guru as well.
The problems I have are not about the essence of his writings. They’re definitely something that should be addressed, but it should always be kept in mind that there’s bigger stuff going on.
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04/03/2009 at 3:04 pm
It’s her website and she’s more than welcome to employ censorship if she pleases. You know that she does it, so when you post to her site, you have to realize that she may edit it. If you don’t like it, well, you don’t have to post.
I don’t really read her site much. And I don’t post to it. I agree with many of her conclusions and definitely support a lot of what she says. However, I don’t like how she treats people who post to her site. She’s sort of needlessly mean. Not my thing.
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04/03/2009 at 3:05 pm
Thank you so much. This means a lot.
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04/03/2009 at 3:06 pm
Fedora… interesting… hm.
Thank you.
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04/03/2009 at 3:07 pm
I’ve thought about this too. Somehow mentally going back to the times before ’72ish. It was a good time to be around. Sure, there were hippies, but it was also very much a family. I think Srila Prabhupada said something to that effect later on in ISKCON (that it was a family back then). That’s pretty cool.
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04/03/2009 at 4:18 pm
I don’t post on her site anymore I stopped. What’s the point? Everything I posted got deleted. I started thinking about what her motive might be though. At first I thought – armed rebellion against ISKCON, or maybe to drum up support to start your own movement – and nix Prabhupada all together in it. There is so much anger on her site.
But then I realized it was maybe something else. Some people live paycheck-to-paycheck, some people lawsuit-to-lawsuit. The way her site is designed and set up, it inflames devotees and creates situations where people might react to what she says with anger and hate. Especially when everything you post there to defend your position gets deleted. I was thinking she might have backing from lawyers representing powerful feminist interests.
If she is threated verbally or physically by the devotees, because of what she writes and claims, she could potentially bring another multi-million dollar lawsuit against ISKCON. This is probably why the GBC and ISKCON leadership is really quiet about what she says. They have to be, they just can’t afford to pay any more out than they already are.
Just my take on things.
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04/04/2009 at 9:15 am
A really honest and mature post, Eric. It’s sad that many have taken a very narrow approach in their understanding of Krishna Consciousness. I find that we get so caught up in the details, sometimes suppressing our true feelings about certain issues that we do forget the essence. Krishna Consciousness becomes more complicated and muddy that it becomes hard to truly follow it anymore.
I agree with the first comment: pick up the good qualities/things and ignore the bad. Simple and uncomplicating.
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04/04/2009 at 7:13 pm
As time passes and you grow in years, many things your father taught you, that seemed unacceptable when you were younger, may become more relevant to you. That is what happened with me and my father. Allow years to pass. You might see that Srila Prabhupada has great wisdom to guide you with as you pass through your years of life. At the same time be open to other teachers as well, there are lots of them that can possibily bring an enormous positive influence into your life. You have to have patience and allow time to pass.
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04/04/2009 at 9:27 pm
It’s that all or nothing thing that always gets me, and it seems that it gets others too. It’s like we all “have” to be monks or something. But that’s just not possible.
What’s nice is that I never thought “well, maybe KC isn’t for me.” In a lot of ways, this whole experience has confirmed my faith. I like that.
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04/04/2009 at 9:28 pm
The older I get, the truer this is.
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04/05/2009 at 12:23 pm
At the same time, each of has to develop a tolerance for things that don’t ever change and that we can not change or influence, inspite of our best efforts.
For instance, I always wanted my father to love me, but he was incapable of expressing love – he was an overeducated son-of-bitch, who treated me like shit, everytime I went to see him. I kept going back again and again to be abused in the same predictable way. There were redeeming things I liked about him though, even though he tended to drive me nuts, everytime I saw him. He was my father after all. The day he died I finally found peace.
There are things similarly about ISKCON that will never change, and that each of us can not change, in spite of our greatest hopes and efforts. There are all kinds of situations throughout life that are like that too.
What each of us has to change within us is a tolerance for not being upset by external agitating circumstances. I am not saying make excuses about what you don’t like, like you said many devotees do.
When I go to an ISKCON temple or festival these days, I see myself as nothing more than a “guest”. I am not even a congressional member – no membership of any kind. That way I am in no way responsilble for what goes on, and I don’t have to try to change anything either. I have total freedom to participate, and then walk away when it’s over.
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04/06/2009 at 1:18 pm
Srila Prabhupada stated that if a religion is perfect then the result is you will develop love of God by following it. Even when Srila Prabhupada was present, many devotees modified his instructions, to fit what they could follow and what they could accept. The test is, after you modify, do you experience happiness and joy? Can you feel yourself advancing in spiritual life and Krishna Consciousness? You have to test for yourself, and be honest with yourself about this.
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